Adverse reaction after updosing - should I hold or taper?

"Thanks @Leminaseri and @Maria A. . Do you have the gi symptoms? Did you notice worsened symptoms if exercised too much??" — @Sunflower

Yeah have that. My muscles get stiff and then weak. Clearly serotonin is all over the place. I pray to god this will end soon. Taking it day by day. My apprenticeship makes everything so difficult. At home it’s a lot easier to sit out. On the other hand I’ve something to do and I’m occupied even if the inner activation feels so disgusting.

"I am feeling better since a week" — @LauraMV

Laura! 🙌 That's awesome news! Definitely save this as hard data for your brain: You can do this! And yes, I sense the same thing about growing through this. It’s almost like every issue I ever ran away from is back on steroids, kicking down the door because I stubbornly refused to listen the polite way! 😅 I am going to keep your kind compliments right next to me for the next time my withdrawal brain tries to whisper in my ear what a dumbass I am. Who knows, it might actually work! I’m starting to believe in a lot of things I never thought were possible. (Though a stage or a book is definitely NOT on that list! That might have been a thing on the drug, whereas the real me is happiest tucked away somewhere cozy, reading a book written by someone else. Even if it doesn't look like it because I talk so much on here! 😂 But I always tell myself: don't be a coward, share your thoughts; others did, and it helped so much.) So yes, as much as this whole process sucks, we are going to learn tons; that much is guaranteed. And if we can take lessons from this that are useful way beyond tapering, then this time isn't lost at all. That might sound ridiculous to some, and come my next wave, I will 100% be eating my own words. 😂 But for today, that’s my hope. Enjoy the good days! Aren't they so sweet when they finally show up? All the tiny, normal things I used to take completely for granted... well, there goes another life lesson I probably should have learned the easy way! Sending a dikke knuffel right back to you! 🤗💛

@Leminaseri Actually like all of you, it is as if this just wont stop! The akathisia and nausea. I force some food and cold water down for the nausea. I also get stiff muscles and then weak, especially in my buttocks and inner thighs. Then I walk like I'm goig to fall over 🥺 I really try to ignore it and try to do something to keep my mind occupied. We can go on with all the "if only" I also try not to go to "if only" I MUST try and sit this through and not go up a dose again. Thank you all for your encouragement and positiveness 💞

I’m so sorry sunflower. I have horrific insomnia and am sitting up in bed unable to sleep. This is so miserable. I was prescribed propranolol for the akathisia and low dose mirtazapine for sleep and neither worked tonight. I’ve been holding for 5 weeks and can’t seem to turn a corner either. I keep praying every single night that I will finally get better and my Zoloft will finally stabilize but unfortunately I have to keep living this hell every single day. I’m also so desperate for sleep and relief but don’t want to add more medications.

@Maria A. I'm with you my friend. We have to believe it will get better. I noticed that you also tried a liquid formulation during your taper. Are you still on liquid? When I tried liquid duloxetine (pharmacy prepared) it destroyed my stomach and my symptoms got worse. I lasted 3 weeks on it and swapped back to bead counting in capsules. This was classed as yet another change and therefore further kindled my instability.. I've asked so many forums for advice, and it's 90% the same response.....HOLD, NO MORE CHANGES. So that's what I'm trying to do but like you, it's a living torturous existence that bears no resemblance to a happy life. I'm desperate to know from others, especially those on duloxetine or venaflaxine, if they had the same experience as we are currently having as I question myself every second whether to just go back on the drug or continue to hold. I know no-one has the magic crystal ball to foresee the future, but similar experiences with lived outcomes would definitely help me believe it will improve if I just hold long enough. Otherwise, it feels like self inflicted hell. Does that make sense??

I had no issues switching from pill to liquid but I did it when I was stable and held for a while before I tapered. Also yes everyone has told me the same thing to just hold and don’t add anything but Ofcourse my doctors have kept trying to add things to help me function until I stabilize on the Zoloft but I feel like it’s just making it worse. I just miss my old life and being able to work, be independent and be functional. I’m currently a shell of my former self and I grieve it every single day. I wish so badly I had never tapered.

@Maria A. I feel the same but then remind myself that long term use of these drugs can bring a wrath of problems as bad if not worse than what we are currently experiencing. And then you would be facing a 'no choice ' situation with potentially worse outcomes. If course, the problem is ( which is where I battle with myself) on the drug, I/we had a good life, felt well and actually smiled/laughed. So the temptation to 'switch' that on again is overwhelming sometimes. Hence why we all come to these forums, looking for help and guidance. And are met with peoples experience/knowledge/opinions that we have to choose to trust or dismiss which adds to the intensity of torture our brains are currently navigating. Many say updose works, many say it makes things worse if you are very kindled already. Some say their taper failed, they reinstalled and have stabilised. Others say that very action ending up with Psych ward admissions. It's a minefield and although everyone is doing and trying their best to help, no one can really predict how our individual bodies/minds will respond to what we end up choosing to do...hold/updose/reinstate. We just have to support each other, know we are not the only ones out there suffering and hundreds of people that were in our current situation, are now stable, continuing with their taper or are finally SSRI,/SNRI free.

@Gigi.0809 @Maria A. @LauraMV @Leminaseri @Mcat @HannaPot @MamaLa Did any of you battle every day with the very dark S thoughts when holding the dose? It's what scares me the most that I've messed my brain up so much and holding will not be enough. I've got tons of support and openly telling my husband everything so I'm not in danger, it's just so horrible to think this way.

@Sunflower yeah. I get these thoughts as a consequence of projecting in the future and I’m not going better. Then I get some SI. As a solution. But it’s tied to my suffering from the WD (or whatsoever) Do they disappear for you after a while?

Hey @Sunflower, Yes, I get S thoughts on and off, too. I am super glad you have a strong safety net in your husband, and remember you can always call a helpline if he ever needs backup. As for your fear that holding won't be enough: I love to quote @songbird on this: "Neuroplasticity is underrated". The chances that you permanently fucked up your brain are slim. But since a brain in a wave often refuses to let us feel hope, here is a more practical backup plan: even if your brain stayed like this for a while, you can learn to live alongside these thoughts. Because at the end of the day, that is all they are: just thoughts. You don't have to get rid of them to survive them; you just have to change how much attention you give them. I am reading Anders Sørensen's book Crossing Zero right now, and he compares this to the chair you are sitting on. Did you notice the pressure of the chair against your body five seconds ago? Probably not, until I just pointed it out. The sensation was there, but your brain wasn't feeding it attention. Withdrawal thoughts are infinitely louder than a chair, of course, and they demand our focus in an unmatched way. But without trying to forcefully suppress them, we can still practice not feeding them. I'm not even finished with the book yet, and I already can't wait to get to the chapters at the end on how to handle thoughts, not just for withdrawal, but for life afterward, too. So either your brain heals (very likely), or you learn how to stop feeding the loud thoughts until it does. Either way, you have options! ❤️

@Gigi.0809 @Leminaseri Thank you both. I get brief windows of zoning out from the S thoughts but then as an example, look at a tall building and wonder is it high enough or at a train station, is it possible to get on the tracks, or what speed does a truck have to hit you to do it. I tell myself it's not an option and try to move my mind off it. At home, I think, when and where would be the best so my children don't find me or my husband doesn't save me. I upset myself thinking like this and try to distract myself away. But they're a daily thought. Truly horrifying.

Hey @Sunflower! The answer to that just came in another thead in this very moment so I just copy paste: from @Anton "Ive actually been in OCD therapy/recovery for the past 4 years or so, and a few books that they(the team) talk about for all emotional disturbances and just life overall are the following:" - How to stubbornly refuse to make your self miserable about anything, yes anything by Albert Ellis - Self help for your nerves by Claire Weeks - Man searching for a meaning by Viktor Frankl - Meditation by Marcus Aurelius "These books are all for how to see things diffirently, change your irrational beliefs about life, perspective shifts and accepting life as it is. Acceptance does NOT mean agreement or liking. Its purely taking the resistance you have on your strugglings!"

"I upset myself thinking like this" — @Sunflower

Try to stop beating yourself up. It's not your fault that you think this way.

Racing/intrusive/negative thoughts have definitely been part of my taper process. What I'm focusing on now - and it's really helping - is trying to take care of my nervous system and focus on being mindful in the present. I'm finding that helps reduce how much I project into the future and how much dark wandering my mind does. It's very basic stuff, e.g., I'll be washing up, and my mind starts drifting, and I'll say to myself, 'right now, you're washing up. You might not feel great, and there are some difficult things in play, but in this moment you're safe, and everything is basically okay' and then I focus on the sensations of the water and the feel of a cup etc. My Mirt taper and separate but exacerbated chronic health problem are forcing me to learn skills I've sorely needed all my life, and if I'd learnt them sooner, I'd never have landed on Mirt. I listen to Eckhart Tolle vids on YouTube for inspo. But another thing I'm also practising is meeting my symptoms - both the WD and those related to chronic health issues - with acceptance and mercy instead of resistance and loathing (read a book by Stephen Levine called Healing Into Life and Death recently, which was a big inspo in this regard; it includes a bunch of meditations, which I've recorded and use daily). That, too, really helps.

Thank you all for sharing. It is striking how much symptoms I recognize... Chronic diarrhea, which I also did not peg as withdrawal for a year or so. Loss of appetite. Sore muscles. And yes, also S thoughts, thank you for your courage to bring this up, @Sunflower. They also can scare me quite a lot and I am hesitant to talk about it myself, even with therapists. It's weird how I do not seem to think about S consiously, the thoughts just pop up in my head. Is that what they mean with 'intrusive thoughts'? An IFS therapist helped me to identify it as a part of me, that wants to protect me from suffering and thus comes up with this 'smart' solution. So now I try to meet these thoughts with more kindness and understanding and less alarm. Although in the heat of the moment, it is quite distressing. I now have been taking omega 3 fishoil for some weeks (high dose, especially EPA), hoping it would help settle my dizziness. I am feeling better now... and also my mood has lifted. You never know what is what, but omega 3 is said to be beneficial for depression as well (also anxiety, menopause and loads of other brain / hormone stuff). The compassion and support I feel in this community is warming my heart. Feeling connected and sending you some love!