Hi, I'm Leminaseri

Welcome @Leminaseri ! I am sorry you are struggling at the moment. I am tapering Zoloft too. How long have you been on 6.52 mg already? Have the symptoms changed since the reduction at all? I think it makes sense to updose a little if it's getting too difficult to deal with. Especially if you have responsibilities to take care of. What happened during previous reductions? You might want to hold the dose for some time now, just to get used to everything. Feel free to share your experience

@Ani Thank you. It has been exactly 31 days today, since holding the 6,52mg. During previous reductions I would have mild insomnia, strong depression and worsening anhedonia for 1-2 weeks and then it would lift up. This time I’m fighting a completely different beast. Dr Horowitz told me to taper 0,02mg per day. Started on 25th July 2026 This was my schedule: 6,80 6,79 6,77 6,75 6,73 6,71 6,69 6,68 Got inner activation here. Hold for 10 days. Stabilized and continued the tapering as below: 6,66 6,64 6,62 6,60 6,58 6,56 6,54 6,52 And on the 23. August I noticed my anhedonia and sexual functioning getting worse and worse so I decided to make a longer hold. As you can see, after holding for 1 month still symptoms get worse and very new symptoms adding up. I realized today that this will be probably the hardest thing in my life to go through. I somehow see the light in the end of the tunnel. But it is extremely far away. The most recent debilitating symptoms are:

• Severe insomnia (cannot sleep more than 2-3 hours in a night and these 2-3 hours are severely fragmented)
• Severe anhedonia
• Severe emotional numbness
• Severe crying spells almost every day
• 7 days ago I woke up from a nap, and noticed a strong stinging pain in the middle of my forehead. Since then I cannot think properly my cognitive abilities are severely impaired. My IQ dropped by several dozens. In that first night I noticed my frontal lobe getting numb, burning and tingling. I have been at the ER yesterday but they didn’t find anything significantly. They didn’t do any MRI though. It was just bloodwork.

And the last symptom is the most terrifying one. I always have had pure O about getting permanent illnesses such as schizophrenia or permanent depersonalization disorder (the original reason for why I take psychiatric medication in first place). But these fears got stronger and stronger on the med as well, because of my very significant sexual dysfunction I developed constant obsession and fear about getting PSSD. After a while my genitals became really really numb. My morning erections stopped and I have incredibly severe burning pain under my feet and on my genitals (possible small fiber neuropathy). All of this made myself feel like my biggest nightmare becoming true. This 100% led to my mental health severely deteriorating regardless of withdrawal. Because the current symptoms I am experiencing right now, were nowhere as strong as the current ones. So now I’m completely clueless what to do. Yesterday I woke up only 1 hour after falling asleep with severe panic, which subsided after staying awake for 30-40 minutes but sleeping became incredibly hard. Yeah I honestly want to believe all of this is withdrawal and I just need to hold until I stabilize. But these symptoms are completely new. Never ever I have had symptoms like this in my whole tapering journey. I’m devastated.

I really wonder if that’s all withdrawal or pre ssri symptoms coming back. I have had a phase on my stable 6,8mg dose 2-3 months ago (been on that for 6-7 months) where I began to notice that my depression shows its ugly head. My dpdr (which I have chronically since 2020 became much much worse. I was worrying obsessively about getting pssd. Had a big time fighting with those thoughts as I have very bad sexual functioning and feared it might stick after getting off of the Zoloft. That worrying made me depressive and anxious regardless of withdrawal I very much believe. I need guidance..

I am sorry to hear that it's really challenging right now. I can't be sure of course what's withdrawal and what are , original, symptoms. But I think at least some of it is withdrawal. Especially if it's new symptoms you didn't experience before. Do you remember having the same issues before medication? I also had some symptoms you are describing during my taper and they mostly go away: panic at night and in the morning, impaired sexual functioning and numbness, anhedonia, emotional blunting among others. I also obsess about some topics (Will I ever function again? Will I be this anxious forever? How can I live like this? Am I a loser? Am I severely mentally impaired and just delusional about the whole withdrawal topic?...) How I think about it; This is real worries and real parts of me that are amplified by the unstable neurological system right now. Also it's to be expected, being really scared of these horrible symptoms. It doesn't really show me who I will be in the future. Might I have some underlying tendency for depression or anxiety? Maybe! Might I get depressed following a difficult life event? Sure! But I believe I will be able to deal with it, there is options (exercise, therapy, meditation, nature, nutrition, sun shine, doing fun things and getting through the pain over time). If I went through this year long taper odyssey I can probably do anything honestly. I think this is true for you too. And even if you have to stop your taper at some point or hold for a long time, it's still a lower dose and you can reevaluate later. And you learned a lot about tapering and yourself. Do you have the option to talk to the doctor again? Are there any strategies that are useful for you? To calm down, redirect thoughts etc, maybe there is something that helps you. I play silly games on my phone to distract myself sometimes. Unfortunately we can't see the future, but today counts and tomorrow and the next day after that too. I hope you get better soon, I understand your worries, it's scary

I don’t have the cognitive ability to write a reply. I’m thinking about updosing strongly. I need the blunting effects.

@Leminaseri I am so sorry you are under this much pressure. Since you have zero cognitive energy right now, I will try to keep this very brief.

• If you need to updose to get your footing back, that is a completely valid choice. But please remember this: an updose is still a change to your nervous system. And right now, change is not your friend. Time is. It might take time for an updose to settle, so be prepared to still hold and wait.

• When you are in this state, please remember that your brain is an incredibly unreliable narrator. The chemical panic latches onto your most terrifying real-world worries. Ruminating won't solve the issue right now; it just fuels the cycle. You don't have to fix the thoughts, just try to distance yourself from them as much as you can (which is the hardest thing, I know). Pure distraction and mindless activities are 100% valid survival tools (see @Ani).

• Lastly, for your wife: maybe a book (I'm reading Anders Sørensen's "Crossing Zero" right now) might help her understand what you are both dealing with. It has to be easier than trying to educate her yourself on something you can barely grasp, let alone explain while in an acute crisis.

Hang in there. Whatever you decide to do, give your body time. You got this far, and you will be better again.

@Gigi.0809 Hi. I have been 50x better than this on all alongside my tapering journey from 100mg down to 6,52mg. My withdrawal symptoms after reductions always have been pretty mild until the recent incident. This one is something completely different. Totally new symptoms. Worsening of pre-ssri symptoms. My dpdr became so strong lately. My mind feels very blank. Very distant. Like content of my mind went down to 4% and all of this started with physical pain on my frontal lobe. I see this kind of stories and symptoms exclusively when people went off their drug completely. It feels as if my body reacted adversely to the 0,02mg reductions per day and my body built tolerance now. In this case it would not be smart to updose. Rather I’d need to taper further. There is not a single story in all of the tapering communities which goes like “I reduced my drug and 1 month later I got hit with crippling cognitive decline accompanied by physical pain in the frontal lobe. Over the day the frontal area of my brain feels completely numb, as it is cut off from my body. This feeling never went away and it progresses to other areas of my head like the side and back. I would sit on my symptoms and wait them out but every time I get hit by something new. I’m 100% sure that the insomnia is a result of my anxiety about this very new cognitive decline and physical brain pain. Until that day and a few days later I slept pretty normal. I need guidance but Horowitz voice mail service is available on the 14th October. I don’t wanna wait so long but in my country there is probably no one who would know better. I have been never this bad in my entire life and I survived incredible bad traumatic mental health incidents. I have not the slightest control nor the knowledge what do as a next step.

Hey there again, What you described about your frontal lobe actually reminds me of Brooke Siem's story. Maybe not the physical pain, but that terrifying sensation of a part of her brain simply being inaccessible. She also described the feeling of her "soul" going offline. If you haven't heard of her, you might want to look her up. I listened to her interview with Dr. Josef here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xtQFqvKeVQ "I have not the slightest control nor the knowledge what do as a next step." — @Leminaseri I completely relate to this. Having even a sliver of control or a clear roadmap for the next step would be fantastic. In my experience, knowledge helps immensely; if only to prove that I'm not going nuts and that other people are trapped in this exact same hell. But on the flip side, trying too hard to control the uncontrollable just makes you fixate and fuels the rumination. Could you maybe make a deal with yourself? Sort out the very few things you can realistically control right now, and f*ck the rest? Gather knowledge where it serves you, but accept the blind spots. For instance: you will never fully understand the exact cellular mechanics of how your body heals a scratch, but you trust that it does it anyway, completely without your conscious input. "I survived incredible bad traumatic mental health incidents." — @Leminaseri Trust that you will survive this, too. It's homeostasis doing its job, which I'm sure you already know, as you're clearly well-informed and way ahead of me on this tapering journey. I’ve only had two crashes so far and only slightly lost touch with "me." I used to dabble in meditation and listen to spiritual gurus who strive for losing the ego or the self... well, if chemical withdrawal is the fast track to enlightenment, I don't want it. But back to Brooke Siem. Her "soul" eventually came back online. That deep, biological will to live that exists inside all of us has a way of carrying us through this. Or, as I like to quote @songbird, "the power of neuroplasticity is underrated ".

"But back to Brooke Siem. Her "soul" eventually came back online. That deep, biological will to live that exists inside all of us has a way of carrying us through this." — @Gigi.0809

The moment I read this I started uncontrollably crying. Because it gave me sense of hope. I will reply to the rest later. Thank you.

Take your time, you're not alone in this.

"What you described about your frontal lobe actually reminds me of Brooke Siem's story. Maybe not the physical pain, but that terrifying sensation of a part of her brain simply being inaccessible. She also described the feeling of her "soul" going offline. If you haven't heard ..." — @Gigi.0809

Yeah I watched the video. She seems to be a pretty strong person.

"I completely relate to this. Having even a sliver of control or a clear roadmap for the next step would be fantastic. In my experience, knowledge helps immensely; if only to prove that I'm not going nuts and that other people are trapped in this exact same hell. But on the fli..." — @Gigi.0809

Yeah I get you completely. Sometimes you just need to embrace your suffering but I am a very obsessive person when it comes to my health to begin with.

"Trust that you will survive this, too. It's homeostasis doing its job, which I'm sure you already know, as you're clearly well-informed and way ahead of me on this tapering journey.

I’ve only had two crashes so far and only slightly lost touch with "me." I used to dabble in m..."

— @Gigi.0809

It’s not believe me. DPDR and enlightenment are complete different things.

"Or, as I like to quote @songbird, "the power of neuroplasticity is underrated "." — @Gigi.0809

That’s a beautiful mantra.

Hey Leminaseri,

"It’s not believe me. DPDR and enlightenment are complete different things." — @Leminaseri

Please excuse my dark sense of humor. They ARE entirely different things.

"you just need to embrace your suffering" — @Leminaseri

I must have explained that poorly earlier. 🙈 Embracing thoughts and emotions is a luxury I only indulge in when I'm stable. During a crash? Absolutely not! Those feelings and thoughts are not embraceable. Honestly, just managing to embrace myself in those moments is hard enough! 😅

"She seems to be a pretty strong person" — @Leminaseri

You, too, seem to be a pretty strong person yourself for making it this far and pulling through. We will get out of this one day. We frigging deserve it.

I increased my dose to 6,6mg as it was too inconsistent to measure down 6,52mg. It was impossible to measure that precise enough with the syringes I have. 6,6mg is only one pull with a single syringe. I will stick with this dose for the next 2 years. I want to become stable.

Hey, there! Prioritizing stability is the way to go, I think. Trying to make major decisions while in withdrawal feels like driving the highway (or the good old German Autobahn) with your eyes closed, if you know what I mean. If you happen to feel stable sooner, you can always switch gears. But forcing yourself onto a rushed schedule just means you end up paying for it with unnecessary stress (at best). And goodness knows we have more than enough of that already! Wishing you a much smoother ride from here on out!

I seriously don’t understand this. Compared to now, I was doing 500% better, when I was on my 6,8mg. I was worried a lot about PSSD and consulted Mark Horowitz. He then told me to try the daily micro taper. It completely destroyed my whole life. My wonderful and lovely wife is suffering because of my insomnia so much. And the worst part is that Mark Horowitz doesn’t even reply to my mails. His tapering method harmed me, he took my 500 dollars and never look back to me. Sounds a lot like Big Pharma behavior to me. I am completely devastated. I just realize that my life was incredibly beautiful compared to now. I knew that my body needs very small drops and very long holds. My PSSD-fears brought me to the impulse to consult Mark Horowitz and here we are. It was too fast. I’m severely injured. And nobody besides god knows if I will ever recover from this. Because my symptoms are incredibly bad. Thank you Mark. Thank you Mark! Thank you Mark! I got injured by someone who would need to know the best to be careful when giving “expert” advices. For updosing further back to my 6,8mg it might be way too late. As some symptoms manifested itself already (head pressure severe blank mind/brain fog) and these will not go away just because I came back to my 6,8mg. I’m so devastated. I cry every day when I look in the eyes of my wife who suffers a lot because of me. I’m afraid my blank mind/brain fog will never get better. Mark Horowitz injured me. If some people think that I’m trolling here, I can provide proof that I indeed consulted Mark Horowitz. Mark Horowitz, my reaper! Thank you!

I am sorry to hear about your bad experience and I am very sorry that you are suffering. I believe that any doctor giving advice would need to keep a very close watch, be available for "emergency" appointments, ask a lot of questions about personal history etc. Not sure if that even exists right now. People tend to know a lot about their bodies, how they react etc My doctor has no clue and basically it's on me to decide what to do and how to taper, I also have to organize my own smaller dose medication, who knows, maybe it's for the best. I hope so so much that you can stabilize soon, get better and than do what worked best for you in the past! Maybe changing the way of tapering can be difficult for the body in some cases? I wish I knew how all of this works exactly. Hope there will be answers one day, research, explanations One day we will raise from the ashes

This is so very similar to my story. I also consulted with Dr. Horowitz and came up with a plan to do a daily liquid microtaper. I was removing .05 of a 40 mL solution (1 mL liquid Zoloft and 39 mL of water). I did this for eight months except when I got to 14.275 in August, I crashed horribly. I tried holding for two weeks but went into acute withdrawal. I then made the horrific mistake of updosing all the way back to 15 mg and have been living in hell the past five weeks. I have experienced severe insomnia, burning pain in my arms and legs, flulike symptoms, hungover/poisoned feeling after nights I don’t sleep, horrible head pressure, nausea, diarrhea, fatigue, wired/tired feeling, extremely restless and pacing, I’m finally at week 5 of my hold and slowly very slowly feel like I’m getting a tiny bit better but this has been horrific for me and my family. I will never taper ever again. I have an appointment with Dr. Christian S. Monsalve today who apparently is knowledgeable about tapering as well. I’m praying he can give me guidance on this.

Also I had DPDR too and was the reason I got put on Zoloft during my third trimester of pregnancy with my first daughter. It’s now almost gone but will randomly come back every now and then.

@Maria A. im very sorry to hear. It seems I’m not the only one devastated by Mark Horowitz’ tapering strategy. Did he at least warn you? Or did he also tell you “your brain won’t notice”? I wonder how many lives he yet devastated. And my big concern comes now: I updosed as well. Not to my original dose. But to 6,6mg because I didn’t want to use 4 different syringes it took me too long and the measuring was unreliable. Today will be day 4 of updosing. Let’s see.

I think micro tapering was very bad for me because I don’t know at which point I crossed the threshold of going into withdrawal. Cut and holds was way more efficient to give my brain time to heal between cuts. I also never slowed down the taper either even though I was having some minor symptoms and pushed through. I do blame myself for that. If I had updosed only a little bit to maybe 14.5 or even back the last dose at 14.3, I don’t think it would have been as horrible and activating as going back up to 15. It sounds like your updose was very small so hoping you’re able to get some relief soon from it. I think the key is just picking a dose and holding for a very very long time.

I am doing the reduce dose & hold taper but feel really bad for about 2 weeks each time, sometimes longer. Also made the ,mistake, of updosing to much after I crashed at 3 mg in January. Took me 6 months to get back to 3 mg but since I hit 3 it's very difficult again, don't know what's best, maybe I'll hold for longer. I've been reducing 0.25 and changed it to 0.1 now, the reaction was honestly the same or even worse with the smaller reduction. Good news is, it takes time but eventually it always got better again, very slowly. Just takes a lot of time to heal. I am struggling a lot right now, I guess I should do a long hold and get better, it's such an individual path

I guess some of us just have a really hard time reducing Zoloft regardless of the method. I don’t think I’ll ever taper again after this. It was really scary and I don’t want to get stuck in a situation where an updose doesn’t work again.

"I don’t know at which point I crossed the threshold of going into withdrawal. Cut and holds was way more efficient to give my brain time to heal between cuts" — @Maria A.

I've been wondering about this so much lately, Maria. Like, what if instead of 8% a month, I did 2% a week... wouldn't that be even easier on the brain? But your point about the missing feedback loop is spot-on. Without the holds, you don't know you've driven off a cliff until you're already in mid-air. That leaves me with the million-dollar question: What if the feedback loop tells me that a 5% cut isn't really going to be any gentler than the 10% that wrecked me? I'll find out soon enough, I guess. It really sucks when you're failed by the first doctor who put you on this stuff without a warning, and then you get your hopes up that a new expert knows better, only to be completely disappointed once more. I am so sorry you have to go through this, @Leminaseri. My answer (for myself and as of now): Logging the data, looking for patterns, finding a cruise speed (does that even exist?), reading success stories for any scrap of hope, getting prepared to fall on my nose again... and praying the absolute crap out of it.